KENWOOD K714WM16 E33 Error

Hello Andy. Thanks for the informative post. I caught your reply by sheer chance today.

I've finally been refunded for the Kenwood and LG machines I purchased. However, I've been left with a massive phone bill thanks to amount of calls I had to make to the Currys Team KnowHow helpline. I only make about a tenner's worth of calls per quarter, but my next bill is going to be about £130 in calls plus BT's line rental charge. I'm going to try to claw some of it back from Currys. I don't whether it's even possible, but I'm going to try. I ended up seeing my GP because of the stress of having to make so many calls (with a minimum 25 minute hold time) and repeatedly dealing with such poor service. The whole thing has put me off Currys for life.

The new Bosch installed by John Lewis seems to be working well. It completes the cycles, and it is incredibly stable when it spins up. There is a small problem I've noticed: when ever I hit the start/pause button to start the Cotton wash cycle it pauses instead of starting instantly. Only when I press it a second time, does the programme begin. These new VarioPerfect Serie 4 Bosches have touchpads, so perhaps it's a little too sensitive. I can live with it (the machine works perfectly in every other aspect), but after everything that's happened, I have started thinking about it.

I was completely unaware about the situation regarding fridges. I still think LG is talking nonsense when it comes to their DirectDrive machines. My flat is on the second floor and was built after the second world war - it's not a new build luxury apartment or anything. The floor is definitely concrete - and as you say there must be millions of flats like mine in England. I think they class it as a suspended floor simply because the home isn't on the ground. It's ridiculous that LG would design a machine that excludes so many households. It's just doesn't make much sense.

Looking back, I really think the vibration issue I had must have been down to an internal fault or incorrect levelling. This Bosch is rock solid when spinning at 1200rpm with a full load of washing. As you say the direct drive design should result in a more stable washer. One thing I instantly noticed about the LG was how plasticky the chassis was. It did not feel like a chassis from a machine that usually retails for £550. The unit's plastic case would creak, even under slower drum motions. And the tinted door was very light in terms of weight and finish. Perhaps the poor plastic chassis played a part in amplifying the vibrations. I'm just happy it is gone.

I just hope it's third time lucky with this Bosch. A couple of weeks in, and apart from that small issue with the start button, it seems to be working well so far.

Retailers are terrible for not enquiring about how the appliances they sell are going to be used. Thousands of people have also had big problems when they have bought fridge freezers to install in their garage. Many fridge freezers will not work in rooms that are particularly cold, so a garage is just completely unsuitable. When the weather gets particularly cold the freezers start to defrost and are rendered useless. It is exactly the same style of problem that you have in that retailers rarely if ever ask where the appliance is going to be installed and used. If they did they could give their customers the kind of excellent advice that we should all expect, but rarely get, especially from retailers that essentially just exist to shift as many products as possible.

There might be an argument that if a customer is not intending to install an appliance in the place where most people accept is the normal place then they should enquire if it is suitable to do so. However, I would not think that buying a washing machine for a flat is a special or unusual place. I doubt that anybody would think twice about it, there must be millions of flats.

Until I've just checked on Google now, I didn't even realise that a suspended floor could be made of concrete. I had always assumed that they were made of wood. However, as to whether you definitely have a suspended floor or not I do not know. I could not find anything as to how to tell. Do flats above ground level always have a suspended floor? I don't know.

As far as I'm aware, most if not all washing machine manufacturers would say their machines are not suitable for suspended floors because a suspended floor can be quite bouncy. But if the washing machine is installed right at the edge of the floor, which it normally is, I can't see how it could be that bouncy. However, it's possible that vibrations caused by the washing machine during spin may be amplified throughout the flooring.

I don't know of any reason why the LG direct drive would have any particular problem with a suspended floor compared with other washing machines. The direct drive aspects of the washing machine simply does away with the motor and drive belt. The motor is built into the back plate instead, and as it turns, it just directly turns the drum. A normal washing machine has a motor fixed to the bottom of the outer tub and then a drive belt attaches to a drum spider to drive the drum. There is nothing about either system that should make one significantly different. If anything, you might expect a direct drive washing machine to be slightly more stable because the motors on the normal washing machines are commonly fixed to one side of the drum which make them inherently less stable. In fact isn't one of the selling points that LG push is the fact that it is a quieter machine?

How stable a washing machine is likely to be on spin is more likely to be defined by the quality of its suspension, chassis, and general build. Anyway, it sounds like you've had one hell of a time with it all. Hopefully this Bosch washing machine will be the best of the three.

Hello Andy. Apologies for the late reply.

Regarding the E33 error code - that was only something I was getting with the Kenwood washer that I had when I started the thread back in October 2017. I no longer have that machine as it was deemed unrepairable by Currys. They had, however, ordered a new PCB module and water sensor - but as they couldn't get the parts, the machine couldn't be fixed within a reasonable amount of time, so they wrote it off.Presumably the E33 error was - as I originally suspected - related to a faulty PCB/water sensor issue. I only received my full refund for the Kenwood 2 days ago despite returning it in December.

I replaced the Kenwood with a more high-end machine from LG (a 2017 LG 8kg Titan with a DirectDrive drum to be specific). This machine was also purchased from Currys. The LG machine has been the one that I've had vibration/levelling problems with.

It wasn't levelled correctly on the day it was installed by Currys. This was established and apparently "corrected" by Currys' engineers that came to inspect it a few days after it was installed. However, the excessive vibration problem persisted - so Currys sent round a delivery man to attempt to correct it. He unsurprisingly failed to the fix the problem. So I decided to contact LG directly. I explained the vibration issues I was having (thinking all it required was a few adjustments to the machine's feet).

They asked me a few questions about how and where the machine was installed. LG then asked me if the machine was installed on the ground floor. I told them it wasn't as I live in a second floor flat. On hearing this, LG told me that their DirectDrive machines aren't designed for suspended floors.

LG refused to send out an engineer because - in their opinion - the problem cannot be fixed. They advised I purchase some anti-vibration caps for the feet to reduce (but not eliminate) the vibrations. I tried to explain to them that I had a tiled concrete floor. LG maintained their DirectDrive technology isn't designed to work on suspended floors and that's why I'm experiencing such severe vibrations. LG said that not many people know this, and it was up to the retailer to make it clear to their customers.

The manual for the machine doesn't even mention anything about suspended floors being an unsuitable installation environment. This obscure piece of information only seems to be available from the customer service helpline. The main takeaway I got was LG's DirectDrive drum technology is designed specifically for ground floor locations. I still find absurd that LG would design a 2017 washing machine with such a specific installation requirement.A part of me still doesn't believe them - suspended flooring isn't mentioned in the manual at all. And everyone I've spoken to laughs at the idea that a 2017 washer only works properly on ground floor locations. Currys didn't make it clear on their website - and even looking at the machine on their website today, there is nothing along the lines of "this machine is only designed for ground floor homes".

Anyway, since my last post, I've returned the LG (Currys came to pick it up yesterday), so I hope everything goes smoothly, and I get a full refund for it.

I picked up a Bosch Series 4 washing machine from John Lewis on clearance, and I had it installed yesterday. It's smaller (7kg), but it feels much more robust than the LG despite the LG's higher RRP. The Bosch just seems to have a better build quality. It's a normal belt-driven machine, and I've done a few spin tests with nothing in the drum and it has remained completely stable.

I'll be testing it properly with a laundry load at the weekend.

Perhaps you'll come across this DirectDrive and excessive vibration issue. There's nothing on the web about it at the moment. I know the DirectDrive tech is exclusive to LG, so maybe it's an emerging issue. I still think designing a machine that only works on ground floors is ridiculous from a business perspective. But LG seem quite adamant that their DirectDrive machines aren't designed for homes (or rooms) above ground level.

Has anyone ever explained the error E 33 that you've been getting? If it isn't mentioned in the instruction manual then it doesn't sound like an error that is triggered because the washing machine isn't level. If that was the case it would definitely be in the instruction manual.

So if it isn't in the instruction manual, that strongly implies that it is a fault that needs an engineer and is not related to the washing machine being level of being on a suspended floor. If that is the case then it implies that there is so far on diagnosed fault on the machine.

If your washing machine is installed inside the kitchen in a normal flat then there must be many tens of thousands of people who buy LG washing machines to install in similar circumstances. If they are unable to work properly without excessive vibration if installed in flat that is not on the ground floor than people should be told when buying the appliance.

There is a similar situation where many thousands of people are buying fridge freezers to install in their garage. There are many fridge freezers that only have one thermostat and are completely unsuited to be installed in a garage. But no salesman ever asks anyone when they are buying these appliances where they are going to be installed. In my opinion this is poor service.

Many retailers are very much aware of all these problems because they get the blowback from customers when problems occur. So they should be training their sales staff to check when someone wants to buy a freezer or a washing machine exactly where the customer plans to install it so that they can advise them of potential issues.

I would expect that if you have been told you would get a refund then you will get a refund.

Hello Andy. Sorry for the late reply.

I've just found it mentally difficult to cope with this situation and had to step away from it for a few days. It just doesn't seem to be getting any better. So Currys sent round a couple of engineers on 3 January. They said we'll have it fixed in 2 minutes. One of the men pulls out the machine, drops it face first on to floor (when I say drop I mean he literally dropped it so that it slammed into the floor). The other looks at the feet, quickly establishes that it hasn't been levelled and makes a few adjustments.

They right it and slot in back in under the worktop. Then they tested it with the Spin programme at max rpm (1400) and it runs without vibrating excessively. They tell me Currys' delivery teams do poor installs all the time (they just unpack the machine and slot it in without levelling it apparently) and it's up to them [the engineers] to go round correcting it. They said it was down to pure luck if customers got a good install. They apologised and left.

Tried the machine the next day with a laundry load and vibrations were back. Called up Currys, requested an engineer, they book one for 7 January. I wait on the 7th, get a knock at the door and it's one of the delivery guys from the original install. He has no tools on him apart from a pair of gloves. I let him look at the machine, explain the problems, attempt to show him my video evidence. He is not interested at all. He turns it on, runs the quick wash programme, and points out there is no shaking. I tell him of course there isn't because it's at the start of the programme. He pulls machine out, says it's level and says my floor is problem and tells me can't level it under the worktop. Doesn't seem interested in anything I have to say. I refused to sign the paperwork and tell I asked for an engineer not a delivery person. He leaves.

I contacted LG today to try to get an engineer to look it. They ask me a few questions about how it is installed. I tell them it's on a tiled floor on a second floor flat. They tell me their Direct Drive machines aren't designed for suspended floors and the retailer should have made that clear (Currys didn't mention this at all on the product description). LG tell me they can't send out an engineer because they can't do anything as the machine isn't designed for suspended floors, ie there is no fix. They suggested I either buy vibration feet to reduce the vibrations or return the machine to Currys as I'm within the 30 day period. They make it clear that there is nothing they can do to eliminate the problem.

So I've just phoned up Currys and asked to return the machine for a full refund as I am within the 30 days. I explain the problem and tell them what LG said about their Direct Drive technology. I thought it would be straightforward. But then the man on the phone tells me that although I'm within the 30 day period as I've used the machine and there's technically not faulty getting a full refund may be a problem. I tell him that Currys did not state that the machine was unsuitable for suspended floors. He was surprised their machines were not designed for floors above ground level. He spoke to manager and then returned to tell that they'd do the refund on this occasion.

I was told I'd shortly receive an email confirming the collection date and that the refund could take up to two weeks. 2 hours have passed and I've got nothing. I'm just worried they aren't going to allow me to return the machine. I think I have valid reasons for the refund. I could only find out that the machine was unsuitable by "using it". To make matters worse, I still haven't received the refund for the Kenwood machine. I got the refund confirmation email on 31 December and Currys told me today that it has gone through on their end, but I've just looked at my account and there's nothing. I just don't know what to do anymore.

How did you get on?

Just to update.

I ran the machine with laundry load today and it still vibrates heavily during its rinse and spin cycles. I dialled down the final spin speed to 1000rpm and still got heavy vibration, although it didn't come forward this time. I know machines are prone to a little vibration, but the intensity of vibrations I'm getting can't be very good for the unit.

I hope it's just a case of levelling it properly. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when they look at it.

Hello Andy. Thanks for replying. Regarding the spanner and hose - that's exactly what I told Currys, ie it was part of machine package I ordered. They gave me an LG email address and asked me to email them with a set of details and a copy of my order confirmation email so that a new hose and spanner can be sent out to me (free of charge).

I emailed LG yesterday evening, so I shall see what happens next.

Yes, I agree. I just didn't understand why the installer was making such a fuss over my request to level the machine. He only adjusted the front feet of the machine and didn't touch the rear feet at all (I'm not sure whether machines normally have adjustable rear feet). My kitchen is very small and space is limited. The machine itself slots under the worktop. It is a bit of an awkward area to work in, but I still think it should have been installed properly.

They brought the machine up with the transit bolts and packaging removed. When I asked for the transit bolts, the second man told me that he binned them and asked me why I needed them, before telling me that I didn't them. It was only after the installer told him to get the bolts because the customer requested them that he felt compelled to get the four bolts.

Today I attempted to level it myself with a regular spanner, and I found it difficult as I am not very good with such tasks. The machine's feet have two sets of bolts on them: the levelling bolts and the lock bolts. I noticed that the lock bolts wern't even tightened. The LG manual seems to describe the opposite of which direction to turn the spanner to raise and lower the machine, which wasn't particularly helpful. It seems to have stopped rocking, but I won't know how bad the vibrations will be until I put a laundry load in.

The other day, the worst of the vibrations occurred when I ran the machine on a 1200 spin cycle. The machine actually started coming toward me and the vibrations were strong when I placed my hand on the unit. The machine sits on a tiled floor, and the key difference between the LG and my previous washers is the direct drive drum. I don't know whether that may have something to do with it.

The spanner and hose are your property. You paid for them in the price of the machine.

Saying your floor isn’t level is a bit silly. The whole point of adjusting the feet to make the washing machine level is because floors aren’t level.

Did he take the transit packaging out? Leaving it in would cause the whole washing machine to shake and move about. The washing machine not being level shouldn’t cause serious movement in the machine, only a little rocking.

It’s not necessary to use a spirit level but it isn’t a bad idea. The main thing is that it looks reasonably level and doesn’t rock from side to side or front to back if you try to rock it.

Just thought I'd provide an update.

So I've got the LG Titan installed, and the faulty Kenwood is finally gone. Unfortunately, I've now got a new problem. The machine itself is fine: it just hasn't been levelled properly, so it vibrates heavily when it spins up. I found this out today when I used it properly for the first time. The machine vibrates so much on its spin phase that it actually starts to move out from where it has been installed. The machine was installed by Currys' very own "TeamKnowHow". The guy installing it didn't use the supplied levelling spanner nor did he check whether the machine was correctly levelled with a spirit level (he didn't even bring one with him).

He even made me hold machine up as he supposedly adjusted the feet (while his colleague waited in the van). When I tried to point out that machine was not levelled properly, he became annoyed and suggested that my floor was not level, before telling me that if I want to level it specifically to how I want it then I should "do it myself". I've never had a problem with an unbalanced machine, so it's definitely not the floor. To make matters worse, they took the original LG cold fill hose and levelling spanner with them. I've now had to contact Currys to re-order both parts directly from LG. As they never gave me the spanner, I can't even adjust the machine myself.

After several hours on the phone, Currys are going to send someone out to look at it next week. I tried to explain to them that the machine uses a specific spanner, but after speaking to LG, they have insisted that the feet can be adjusted with a regular spanner. I don't know who to believe. It's just another appalling experience for me to endure.

Hello Andy. Thanks for the link and suggestions. I shall give the article a read. Miele seems to be gold standard of washing machines. To update on my situation: I found out that the repair service had also ordered a water level sensor (along with the PCB) and it was this part that they were still waiting for. Anyway, I've finally managed to get the machine declared as "unrepairable" - I explained that I'd waited long enough for the repair and had been significantly incovenienced. They also informed me that the water level sensor wasn't going to arrive anytime soon.

After almost two hours on the phone, I managed to arrange for the machine to be collected and my account to be refunded. Compensation was a non-starter: I was told they "don't do that anymore". I've decided to replace it with the LG Titan that I mentioned in my previous post.

It's going to cost me around £130 more, but I've managed to get them to waive the delivery and installation fees (as its replacing a faulty machine). It's all due to happen next week (I've been told installation and collection should happen on the same day) . I really hope once I get the new machine in it will be the end of my washing machine woes.

I hope you have a good Christmas and new year. Thank you for all your advice so far. I'll update the thread once the new machine's in.

Unfortunately there's no definitive recommendation other than Miele. I've just updated this article adding a few paragraphs about the badged appliances Which is the best washing machine to buy? You might want to join up with Which? and read through their reviews - Why subscribe to Which?

Hello Andy. Thanks for the swift reply.

I'd love to get an AEG, but it's simply beyond my price range. I've looked at the Zanussis available, and the two that are in my price range (the Lindo100 and Lindo300) seem to be rather lacking in features. Both have limited spin speed options and neither seem to have a spin only programme - which I find strange.

There's an LG Titan that comes with a 2-year guarantee, 10-year motor and parts warranty, and the option to get a 5-year warranty. I'm leaning towards it. It was originally £550 (now it's below £400), so I guess that puts it beyond entry-level budget washer. I guess I'll have to think about it, options are really limited.

I also found out today that the Kenwood brand is actually "Currys Essentials".The Kenwood customer helpline redirected me to the Currys technical helpline where a representitive mentioned the Essentials brand when re-directing my call. I don't know how they get away with that. I wouldn't have gone near it had I known it was an own-brand washer.

If you could find an AEG within price range that would be better, but out of that list, if buying personally, I would probably choose Zanussi. LG and Sharp are likely to have the least attractive aftersales service and spares.

Hi Andy. So I'm going to ask for a replacement from a different manufacturer. The Bosch machines that are within my price range are still out of stock, so I was just wondering - in your opinion - which of the following manufacturers would you lean torward when it comes to reliability and long-term spares support?:

These are the affordable manufacturers currently available on Currys' website (I've done my best to leave out the manufacturers that aren't proper washing machine brands, eg Grundig, Logik, Belling, etc):

Beko

Hoover

Hotpoint

Indesit

LG

Sharp

Zanussi

Hello Andy. I've drafted a letter that I'm going to email to the retailer. I had a look at the retailer's website today only to find that the Bosch machine I wanted has gone up from £319 to £399. To make matters worse all the other entry-level Bosch washing machines are currently out of stock.

My run of bad luck just seems to continue. I think I'll hold off forwarding the email for a couple of days to see if they replenish their stock.

Hopefully the fact that it's over £100 more might help persuade them to do the right thing and exchange it.

Hello Andy,

Yes, I think you're absolutely right. I was originally planning to buy a Bosch machine, but instead chose to save a few pounds and go with the cheaper Kenwood. I've always associated Kenwood with food processors and handheld kitchen appliances. I really should have known better. And as you say that's why it's probably so hard to get spares for it. I'm planning to request to replace the Kenwood with a similiarly spec'd BOSCH WAB28261GB washing machine. At £319, the Bosch is £110 more than what I paid for the Kenwood (£209), but if that's what reliability and peace of mind costs then I'll have to pay for it. It's the cheapest equivalent that I could find on the Currys' website.

My question is do you think it is wise to clearly state that I'd like to exchange the Kenwood for the BOSCH WAB28261GB, or would it be better to be more vague and simply say I'd like to exchange/replace it with a similarly spec'd machine from a different manufacturer, and then it leave up to them? I'm just not sure whether I'm explicitly allowed to ask to exchange it for a specific model of my choosing.

Hello. It might not be a bad idea to ask for some compensation but I would secure the exchange first. I personally would never buy any appliance from a brand that don’t actually make them. Lots of brands such as Russel Hobs, Bush, and I’m pretty sure Kenwood amongst many others sell appliances that they don’t actually make. They just get them badged up with their brand name and logo on. Customers don’t know who really made them. This often results in major problems getting information and parts for them down the line. It would be like Hoover selling cars with the Hoover logo on but they are made by Fiat or Kia etc. There’s just no need!

Hello Andy. Thank you for the very helpful reply and article link.

I am definitely going to take your advice and ask for a replacement. I was initially going to accept the repair, but after hearing that I'd have to wait until 22 December, I just find it difficult to continue down that road. Out of curiosity, I decided to directly contact Kenwood's spares service today and was told that their supply of PCB modules for my machine is scheduled to arrive on 16 Februrary 2018. The member of staff stressed that the PCB in particular is unlikely to arrive before that. So it's pretty much a given that I won't be getting it fixed this year at least. I'm not going to wait until 22 December for the retailer [Currys] to tell me what I found out today.

I've completely lost faith in the Kenwood brand.Yesterday the wash cycle didn't complete, and the Spin cycles took several restarts to get going. And the drain pump keeps starting when I shut the door and open it again. Nothing should be running when a programme hasn't been selected, and especially when the drum door is open. It's clear it is not a minor fault and that I have a machine that can't do its job properly.

I already miss the days when I could put my old Bosch on and go and worry about something else for an hour. I've also noticed that several components relating to this model are described as "no longer available" across various spares websites. Coupled with the continued unavailability of the PCB, it just all seems a bit strange for a machine that's currently on sale. That's why I'm going to attempt to ask for replacement (similarly spec'd) machine from a more reputable manufacturer. I was going to phone them, but I think it'd be better if I emailed them instead - at least that way I'll have an electronic paper trail.

Do you think I should explicitly ask for some form of compensation or leave it up to the retailer to decide how they'll express their "goodwill"? I've never had to resort to anything like this kind of action when I've purchased a product.

Hello rollcage. Yes I would definitely ask for a replacement. If this fault started just a week after delivery and it is well under 6 months old you should be able to reject it under the sale of goods act. The sale of goods act was recently amended to state that any fault within the first 6 months is deemed to have been present when purchased. Unless they can prove otherwise it is accepted that your washing machine was sold with an inherent fault which breaches the contract. Normally if they can repair it quickly I don't think it's a bad idea to accept a repair. However, you have now suffered enough inconvenience, with the prospect of being without the washing machine for another few weeks or more around Christmas time. I would definitely get onto the retailer (not the manufacturer) and tell them that you want to reject the washing machine and have it replaced because it was sold with an inherent fault and they cannot repair it within a reasonable time.

Check out my article here which explains that in more detail - it also explains that a further amendment means that you have the right to reject any washing machine that goes faulty within 30 days - Sale of goods act - appliances

So I just thought I'd provide an update.

It's been a week since the engineer came round and the E33 problem is becoming more frequent. I turned on the machine today, and before I could even select a programme , the E33 error flashed up on screen along with the drain pump whirring away. It actually prevented me from starting any programmes for several minutes. This particular behaviour has never happened before. I've also noticed that simply opening and shutting the door (when the machine is simply on and no programme has been selected) makes the drain pump start up.

After eventually managing to get the machine started, it came to a halt 40 minutes into the 2hr Cottons (with Speed Wash enabled) programme with...the E33 error. Again the drain pump could be heard in the background when it had no reason to be on. I've just cancelled the programme and restarted it and shall see how it goes.

I phoned up the retailer today and was told that they are still waiting for the PCB module to come in. I was told that I'd have to wait until the 22nd of December and that there was nothing else I could do besides wait. So much for the initial 4-5 days time frame I was given. I just feel powerless as a consumer as I bought this machine in good faith and never expected to be facing a scenario like this. It's clear there is an inherent problem with this particular model, and I have a feeling it is widespread since the PCB modules seem to be out of stock everywhere - even on the manufacturer's own spares website.

And it's just failed again as I type this. The drain pump has kicked in when it shouldn't have: 50 minutes into the 2hr cycle. The drain pump normal kicks with 47 minutes remaining on the clock. Today on the first failure it kicked in at 1hr 19min and just now at 1hr 09min.

Do you think I'd be able to request an exchange instead of waiting for the repair? I'm facing the prospect of once again going with no washing machine. It just shouldn't be happening with a product that's little over a month old.

Hi Andy. Thanks for replying.

I think you're right. I think that I've just been putting too much stock in that service manual I found online, and perhaps I'm wrongly assuming that the error code table applies to all Kenwood washing machines, ie that there's some sort of internal standardisation. I read somewhere that for some reason manufacturers tend to hide explanations behind undocumented fault codes so maybe that's why it's been so difficult to find any information.

Anyway, things seem to be getting worse. I did two Cotton washes with Speed Wash enabled (yesterday and this morning) and both failed to complete. Having failed to enter its final spin, the machine came down the last few minutes of the programme and hovered on the 1 minute mark. It seemed to take on a short burst of water, started the drain pump, and went silent, before repeating the process.

The programme just would not end. So I turned it off and on again, and when the door unlocked, I opened it only for the drain pump to start up (despite no programme running). The 12 minute Spin programme took a long time to start, too, with the timer going up and down and the spin starting and stopping. I had to restart it several times to get it to work.

It's just all over the place. I really hope it's just the PCB that's at fault.

I did a quick google for the PCB module for my machine, and it's out of stock everywhere with a delivery time frame of 28 days. I phoned up the repair company today, and they are still telling me the part should take 4-5 days to arrive. I'm just worried they are eventually going to tell me the part won't be available for weeks. The alarm bells are starting to ring.

The prospect of living with this problem for several weeks isn't something I'm looking forward too. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

Hello Rollcage. Many thanks for the update. Yes as I said in my first response it's very unusual for something like that to happen so early on. That's why most engineers will approach it assuming it is something the customer is doing or something to do with installation. If their tech support said that the error code means that the PC has malfunctioned that sounds fair enough. You can't be sure that error codes even from the same manufacturer but for different models always mean the same thing. You would think that any specific manufacturer would have error codes that mean the same thing for every washing machine they make. But it doesn't work out like that. Hopefully it will just turn out to be one of those things and be okay from now on.

Hello Andy. Thanks for the reply and the link.

Over the weekend, I used the machine twice in an attempt to re-create the E33 error so that I could film it on my phone. I ran the Cottons 60 degree programme with Speed Wash enabled (this was the programme that was giving me the E33 error) and on both occasions they completed successfully - wash, two rinses, followed by the final spin - all completed with no problems.

The 12 minute post-wash Spin programmes I ran also completed successfully. On both occasions when loading the machine, I decided to fold laundry items in half and patted it down. I intentionally only filled half the drum, hoping this would encourage the E33 error to appear. But for some reason a half-filled drum wasn't a problem this time round.

Anyway, I had engineer round today. I told him about the intermittent E33 errors I was getting, and the machine's occasional refusal to spin. He took a look at the machine, turned it on and spun the programme selector knob on to a random programme, and I can't remember whether he pushed the Start button, but for some reason the drain pump started up, even when the door was ajar.

He sent details of the model to his tech support team (via an app) and on receiving feedback, told me that I'd have to wait for them to get in contact with Kenwood as they didn't have anything regarding the E33 error code in their manuals. But after a few minutes, he got some new information from tech support and told me that the error code means that the PCB has malfunctioned, and that they'd be in touch to arrange the repair once the part had arrived. And off he went - the entire appointment didnt even last 10 minutes.

I confirmed that I won't be charged for anything as the machine is under warranty.

The Kenwood service manual I referred to in my original post suggests that E33 refers to a water sensor PCB connection issue (although that manual isn't specific to my model). I just find it strange that a major component such as the control board can fail so early in a machine's life (it's just over a month old). No tests were carried out on any of the other components. The diagnoisis was literally just "new PCB required". Just interested to hear your thoughts on that diagnosis and if you would have done further tests before coming to that conclusion?

It sounds like either the drum isn't being loaded too well or there is a fault on the sensor or it's far too sensitive to be practical. It shouldn't be so sensitive that it is refusing to spin on an annoying level. Under loading can be an issue, as can loading with 1 or 2 items that get particularly heavy when wet combined with other items that don't. They can cause imbalance. It does sound like it's doing it too many times to be a user fault but if you haven't already check this article out too Loading a washing machine

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear. This was what I loaded the drum with:

Heavy Items

2 thick sweaters

1 pair of jogging bottoms

Light Items

1 single mattress cotton valance sheet

3 cotton long-sleeved t-shirts

2 pairs of boxers.

When I loaded the drum, I thought it would be sufficient - there was about a hand's width of space left in the drum - but it still refused to spin during the Spin programme until I took one of the heavy items out. I was just wondering if you reckon that's an adequate load for a 7kg drum?

Today, I ran the full 60 degree Cottons programme (2hr 45min) with what I thought was a well-filled drum, yet the programme overran by 25 minutes because the machine was fumbling around trying to enter its final spin. After it completed, I ran the 12 minute Spin programme, and again, it would not spin. The timer was going down to 8 minutes before climbing and hovering around the 10-11 minute mark before coming down to 7 minutes and repeating.

During this the the drum was turning slowly, occasionally starting to spin before halting. The drain pump was - as usual - whirring away in the background. In the end, I gave up, turned the machine off and decided to give the spin programme a miss.

The machine's load balancing sensor seems to be overly sensitive - it's ridiculous. Once again today, I thought I filled with drum with a good amount of clothes and yet it refused to spin. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. It's incredibly frustrating; it's as if I have play a guessing game everytime I run the machine and hope it completes without any problems.

Thanks for the advice regarding the engineer. I've already filmed the problems that I had today, and I'm going to attempt to recreate the E33 fault tomorrow. I've got them booked in for early next week, so hopefully I'll be able to show them what's happening.

Yes 2 items is likely to be under loaded. Especially in a 7Kg drum. Depending on how heavy they are when wet it's very possible the machine wouldn't spin them because it wouldn't be able to balance them. The same load can potentially sometimes balance ok and sometimes not due to the random nature of how they gather and fall together in the drum.

It's possible for a fault to be intermittent if something (like a small button) was jammed inside the drain hose or the connector at the u-bend. It can swivel and act like a butterfly valve. However, if this was the case then when the washing machine gives the E33 error (if it is caused by not pumping water out properly) there would be water in the drum. Bear in mind that laundry not spun would mean some water was inside the drum anyway because the laundry would be sopping wet. The difference between water caused by laundry not being spun and water caused by a pumping out problem might be difficult to judge without experience.

Try to recreate the fault before an engineer comes. If you can, video it on your phone to show them. Many manufacturers threaten to charge you if their engineer finds no fault and this can be a problem with intermittent faults. If a fault is intermittent then sod's law tends to cause it to work perfectly OK when an engineer comes and as they don't have much time they are very happy to claim no fault found - Repair company want to charge if engineer can’t find fault

Hello Andy. Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I think you're right, the machine must have been moving onto the first rinse cycle hence the drain pump kicking in.

The machine was installed with a brand new waste extension hose (connected directly to my sink's waste pipe). The thing is, just today, the machine, once again, successfully completed a full 60 degree cotton wash cycle. Surely if there was a problem with the drain pump or pressure system, then it would show up in this wash program too? Yet it filled and drained without any problems, before going onto its final spin and completing successfully with the "End" message.

I've decided to book an appointment with an engineer for next week.

Although, something strange did happen today. I normally run the 12 minute Spin program (at 1000rpm) after the wash program, and today it just wouldn't happen. The timer went down to 7 minutes and started climbing again to 10 minutes. I could hear the machine starting to spin up before stopping - this was happening while the drain pump was active. I turned off the machine and restarted the program several times - and the same thing kept happening - it just wouldn't spin up to 1000rpm. So I decided to take an item of clothing out of the machine and tried again and to my surprise it worked - and completed successfully.

The machine was loaded with 2 (thick) cotton sweaters, a pair of jogging bottoms, a mattress cotton valance sheet, 3 cotton long-sleeved t-shirts and 2 pairs of boxers.

Would you say that's an unbalanced load for a 7kg drum?

When I loaded the machine there was about a hand's width of space left, so I thought that would be okay. It was only after I took out one of the thick sweaters that the machine was able to successfully complete its Spin program.

I suppose the real question I have is: is it wise to always load the machine with an even number of heavy items? Today's laundry load had an uneven number (3) of heavy items, and it was only after I removed one item that the machine spun. I really thought as long as the drum was almost full (as it was today) the weight would be sufficient to balance things out.

When it was pumping continuously and the laundry was hot it sounds like it had completed the wash cycle and was trying to move onto the rinse cycle. The timing of 50 mins in sounds about right too. At this point it should pump out the water then start taking in cold water. Three things can commonly stop it continuing.

1: Not pumping water away properly due to a blockage or pump / draining problem (if so there would be water clearly still inside the machine)

2: Pumping out the water OK but not getting the signal that the water has gone due to a blocked pressure system or faulty pressure system (Highly unlikely on a new machine)

3: Can't pull in cold water due to fault on plumbing / kinked fill hose / tap turned off

I would be tempted to ring the manufacturer and report an intermittent fault with error E33. If the error isn't listed in the book then it's presumably not related to out of balance loading (which should have its own error code).

Hello Andy. So today it seems the "E33" error problem I was having has returned. I loaded the machine with a full load, selected the 60 degree Cottons programn and then selected the Speed Wash function to cut the wash time down from 2 hours 45 minutes to 2 hours. 50 minutes into the cycle, I hear the machine beeping and the drain pump whirring away. I go see what's happening, only to be greeted by the dreaded E33 error message on the display.

I also notice that the drain pump is just going non-stop. I turned the machine off and opened the door to a puff of steam. This suggests that the machine hadn't even entered its first rinse cycle, so I have no idea why the drain pump was even running. As far as I am aware, the machine doesn't enter its first rinse cycle until the last 50 minutes of the program.

I really think this problem is isolated to the 60 degree Cottons program with Speed Wash enabled. I've yet to encounter this error when I've run the full 60 degrees Cotton program.

I'm currently running the full 60 degree Cottons program (2hr 45min) at the moment to see if it completes successfully.

Do you think it's worth getting in touch with an engineer again? It seems there is still an issue. I just can't believe that this is happening on a machine that is brand new.

Edit: the full 2hr 45min 60 degree Cotton program has just completed successfully. Surely if a sensor was dodgy then it would also affect this wash program. It makes me think that there's some sort of programming error related to the 60 degree Cottons program when Speed Wash has been enabled.

I went from a 5kg Bosch to this Kenwood 7kg machine so the larger drum capacity is certainly welcome, but my thinking was wrong - I was loading the machine with same amount of clothes that I loaded my old machine with. And that seems to have upset the overly sensitive load balancing sensor. I live on my own, and I was actually going to go for the 8kg model at one point - thankfully I didn't. I've since adjusted my laundry routine so that I do fewer larger loads. The long wash times definitely take some getting used to (I don't wash below 60 degrees), but since I'm doing fewer washes, I guess it all works out. I've been going through the washing machine articles on whitegoodshelp and have found them to be very helpful. It's a fresh start with this machine, so I'm going to try to use what I've learned to look after my machine properly.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the resources on the whitegoodshelp website and here on the forum.

Excellent. That was my first thought so glad it was just that. As I said it is extremely rare for an appliance to go faulty so soon so it's most commonly something to do with installation or the way it's being used if one goes faulty in the first week. The underloading issue causing a washing machine not to spin is much more common on the larger drum capacity washing machines. For this reason I don't recommend them for single users or very light washing users as they commonly don't wash enough to fill the drum. This results in the potential not balancing so won't spin fault but also it defies the only reason large capacity drums are more economical to use. If you don't wash more washing than you used to wash with a smaller drum it's likely to cost more because the savings are based on washing less often but with more laundry inside. (Pros & Cons of different washing machine drum sizes)

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read. Turns out my problem was that I underloaded the machine. I've used the machine several times since and made sure on each occasion that it was loaded with a good amount of clothes. I haven't any problems since. The machine does its final spin and completes almost on time with the "End" message. I've cancelled the appointment with the engineer. I guess I just have to make sure I put in enough clothes every time I use it.

Thank you for your advice.

Hello Rollcage. Yes if the washing machine can't balance the load properly it can get stuck and refuse to spin. Regarding the wash times, that sounds about right. I have an article here about long wash times which deals with why economy wash cycles take so long - Why does washing machine take so long to wash?

Hi Andy. Thank you for replying. I purchased the machine from a well-known retailer and it was brand new out of the box, so I was surprised when it threw up the error code. Regarding the load on that day, I loaded it with the following items: 4 cotton long-sleeve t-shirts, 1 pair of boxers, 1 tea towel, and 1 pair of jogging bottoms. It's a 7kg drum and after patting down the laundry before washing, around half the drum was empty. I thought it'd be a good idea to leave plenty of space for the clothes move to aid the cleaning process.

Do you think it's possible I underloaded the machine and therefore it caused a load balancing issue - which extended the programme way beyond its original duration?

Yesterday I ran the machine on its 15 minute Express wash programme (with no load inside and no temperature set) and it completed successfully with the "End" message displayed on the screen. Do you think that rules out any problems with the PCB, water or pressure sensor?

Today I've loaded the machine up with a lot more items, and as I type this, I'm running it on the 60 degrees Cottons programme with Speed Wash enabled to cut the wash time down to 2 hours. This was the programme that threw up the error the other day, so I shall see how it goes.

I just have one question. This is the first time I've owned a modern machine with long "energy efficient" wash times. When running a regular 60 degree Cotton wash programme (which takes 2 hours and 45 minutes on my machine), is it normal for the machine to just turn clockwise and anticlock wise ie "wash" for 2 hours and only start draining and rinising in the last 1 hour to 45 minutes of the programme?

After the inital bursts of water at the beginning of the programme, the machine doesn't take on board any new water beyond a few occasional bursts (I think) and just rotates the drum clockwise and anticlock wise at the same speed for a good 2 hours. So my clothes are washed in the same body of water for 2 hours before the draining and rinsing kicks in during the last hour/45 minutes. Is this what the modern washing process looks like? I just think it's ridiculous that it spends 2 hours washing clothes in the same body of water. My machine has an A+++ energy rating. My old Bosch did the job in an hour (60 degrees cotton washing and rinsing).