New machine advice
I’m looking to buy a new washing machine.
My current machine is a Bosch washer dryer bought 14 years ago, with light use from one person. After 8 years the sump motor failed. I replaced it myself with a compatible unit, tedious but not complex. A few years later the wash water stopped heating. I replaced the heating element and then the thermostat with compatible ones. Still no joy. Not long after the tumble dryer failed, the washing did not dry, I think the blower failed, an expensive component. So I now have a dehumidifier which to be honest is much better than the tumble dryer, cheaper to run, and it dries the house too, stopping mould. Recently the washer made noise while spinning, indicating trouble with the bearings. I don’t know how long it will continue in this state.
I’ve decided to replace it, and thought Miele would be ideal. However, the latest Which report shows that Miele have roughly the same failure rate within 7 years as many other brands (1). And a user report on another forum describes appalling warranty support from a Miele with a ten year warranty. Currently the warranty is only two years which suggests lack of quality.
I can get a Bosch washer with a 5 year warranty for about £500, they seem to be a decent brand. Bosch has the advantage that I can do basic maintenance myself, whereas Miele components are expensive. And I am not convinced today’s Miele machines are more reliable, despite many components being more robust. I’d love to buy a better machine that lasts much longer and saves landfill, one £800 machine instead of two £400 ones sounds great, but I’m not convinced it works like that.
Comments please, especially if I’ve written any nonsense.
(1) The Which report is a bit poor IMO. It does not tell us what sort of issues the Mieles had, were they minor issues due to posh people having high expectations, or serious costly ones? Was it circuit board failures, or seal leaks, motor failures? Were they mainly cheap machines that failed, or all models, or even mainly expensive machines with more fancy stuff inside? What is the 10 and 15 year failure rate? Miele are supposed to last yonks, whereas my Bosch is clearly designed for a 5 year life given normal family use. And of course the Which report tells us about machines sold years ago, not today’s models. That said, I conclude that they are not as reliable as we are led to believe by the “designed for 20 years lifetime” marketing.
Solution Summary
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This thread was marked as solved. Here's a summary of the problem and the fix, generated from the discussion below.
Buying advice for replacement washing machine after ageing Bosch washer-dryer faults
- The problem
- The poster was not asking for a repair to the existing machine, but for buying advice on replacing a 14-year-old Bosch washer dryer. The old machine had previously had a sump motor replaced, then loss of water heating despite replacement heater and thermostat, later dryer failure, and more recently spin noise suggesting bearing wear. The poster was considering Bosch versus Miele and questioned reliability reports and long-life claims.
- Likely cause
- No new appliance fault was being diagnosed. The existing Bosch was described as having multiple age-related component failures, with recent spin noise taken by the poster as indicating probable bearing trouble. Forum replies mainly discussed comparative brand reliability, repairability and warranty value rather than confirming a technical defect.
- What fixed it
- The accepted advice was that Which? reliability reports can still be a rough guide but have limitations, including sample size and inclusion of all faults. The strongest recommendation in the thread was to consider staying with Bosch as good value, reasonably reviewed, and likely more repairable than current Miele machines. Miele was described as still good but no longer clearly superior enough to justify the extra cost in all cases. No specific purchase was confirmed by the poster.
- Checks to try
- Existing Bosch had a sump motor replaced
- Existing Bosch had a heating element replaced
- Existing Bosch had a thermostat replaced
- Poster reported spin noise suggesting bearing issues
- Forum discussion considered warranty length, repairability and reliability reports
- Parts or tools mentioned
- sump motor
- heating element
- thermostat
- dehumidifier
4 Answers
Yes, you are right about the Which? reports. As far as I am aware they include all faults, including ones caused by the user such as pump blockages. However, this is the same for all brands, so in theory things should still even out reasonably accurately. But another problem I have seen with the Which? reliability reports is with the sample base numbers. To be truly accurate, you would need to survey a thousand people from every brand but I have seen charts where some brands samples with a percentage of several hundred people and some only a couple of hundred. I would have thought that would skewer things a little bit too. But generally speaking there should still be a reasonable guide I would have thought.
Unfortunately, Miele are not the amazing brand that they used to be in the past. Sadly, economics just end up spoiling the laudable concept of "forever better". Miele could still keep making their white goods appliances every bit as good as they always did, and I'm positive that they would absolutely love to be doing just that. The chances are that if they had done, it could be £2000 just for their basic washing machine, and their top washing machines would probably be four or five thousand pounds.
They have to keep them at a price that is still viable, and unfortunately the only way to do that is to cut down on the quality. However, having said all that, I still believe that Miele washing machines are the best. They might not be as good as they used to be but arguably they only have to be better than everything else to still be a respectable brand. I have just bought one myself. But it does seem that they are no longer the almost guaranteed the longest lasting washing machine you can invest in because they are struggling to keep down the cost of repairs too and I have heard many examples where their engineers have told customers that they Miele appliance is not worth repairing even though it less than 10 years old.
I say that I bought one myself recently. I can say without fear of contradiction that is definitely not as well made as the Miele W3740 washing machine (18 years old) that it has replaced. It's still very good, and to be fair costs less than what the Miele W3740 washing machine cost 18 years ago. Clearly this cannot be done without reducing quality. But it's still a good machine. In all honesty if I were you I would consider sticking with Bosch. They have very respectable reviews by Which? they too are a German brand that used to be 3 or 4 times better quality than they are now (about 30 years ago). But they represent extremely good value for money and are likely to be more repairable than the Miele.
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Another brand I would consider is AEG
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Thank you. I noticed after posting that you’d bought a Miele, but I suspect that takes into account that you can do repairs yourself if needs be. The Bosch does appeal given that they currently have a 5 year warranty, and I can do many repairs myself. That my Bosch has so many components failing tells me that I’m not unlucky, they just aren’t made to last more than 5 years or so when used by a family. .
Regarding the Which sample sizes, you’re right, the smaller the sample size, the wider the error bars i.e. the greater the uncertainty.
Bosch tend to be bought as a compromise between say an AEG and a Miele. I do not like either myself and neither do I think they are worth the spons. The 700 quid Miele has a sealed tank unit which means when or if the drum bearings fail you have to have a complete tank unit....that t`aint going to be inexpensive and the same can be said of Zanussi and AEG as they have sealed tanks too as do Indesit, Hotpoints, Hoover/Candy and most Bosch. I myself always had a soft spot for Tricity Bendix machines which were revamped Zanussi without the original cock-ups but they were good so they got discontinued!
Beware of Miele`s labour charges too; a bit of a rip off IMO - go to their website and see for yourself; make the effort if you`re in that market place before you buy and not the usual consumer trick and look afterwards....then moan. The built for 20 years thing is true (ish!) BUT notice they never tell you how many expensive parts it takes to achieve that. I`ve had Indesit machines last 18 years (my brothers is nearly 30 years old) and yes it is true it has broken down but there are loads of aftermarket parts available at cheap prices whereas that does not happen very much with Mieles efforts nor Siemens contraptions either where you very often pay through the nose..............and then continue to.
Without being too overly sarcastic or cynical (something that I am both good at and famed for having been, but now retired, a service repairer for way over 40 years) as so many people do next to zero research when buying BUT are the type of folks who`ll argue about the price over a 20p to £1 tin of baked beans for hours on end such is the mentality..... try not to be one of those people and get real when dealing with stuff costing many £100`s!
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